In order to provide an atmosphere of positive criticism and enthusiasm for the Varsity Sport of Bowling, the Wemaster will post comments and thoughts on this site from identified Coaches, Athletic Directors, Student/Athletes, and Parents. All participants must use a Screen Name but still must identify themselves to the Webmaster in their first Email.
    Those who wish to post for all to see, simply need to send an Email to: Rob Ploof. Only those who identify their name and school will be posted. NOTE: Comments deemed profane, obscene and/or derogatory will not be posted.

Posts less than a week old will be posted as  NEW

26. Eagle Eye: (4-21-07) Subject: Appropriate Punishment.
Since the violation was discovered at the end of the season and no action was taken to remove the violators from singles and team competition, they should forfeit the right to participate in the regionals the following year, if they were not seniors this year. One individual and one high school team were denied the opportunity to compete in the state finals because individuals who broke the rules were not punished. You can't make it up to the team and individual who were cheated out of their place but you can punish the violators by not allowing them to participate this year. That is the only right thing to do.

25.The Other: (4-20-07) Subject: MHSAA Rules Violations.
Luckily, we don't have to decide, monitor, or debate the consequences for breaking rules, as MHSAA is in charge of regulating these types of rules and handing punishment where warranted. When the limits of competition are exceeded typically, forfeits are part of that consequence. MHSAA really hopes schools would self-report any infractions, with a strong emphasis on the integrity of ADs. At that point Jack Roberts assesses the situation and what would be appropriate penalties. Keep in mind as well that there are two different rules (with different penalties) here: exceeding the number of dates for school competitions, and violating the Limited Team rule (bowling in non-school events). According to MHSAA when I talked to them about this, there have already been cases dealt with this year. Not knowing who we were talking about here, or who MHSAA was talking about, I have no idea if these are the ones that prompted the post. I think the biggest thing to keep in mind here is that for the integrity of our sport, all allegations should be reported to MHSAA to be dealt with so us coaches [especially the 99% of us who are careful to follow all the rules] can avoid any hearsay or misinterpretations. That being said, I think it is also important to lobby MHSAA if we think we have feedback about certain rules or penalties not being harsh enough for future seasons.

24.Creek Voice: (4-20-07) Subject: Punishment.
Violations occur and will continue to occur until the leadership starts dishing out punishment for violations. It is way beyond time for leadership at the state level to treat our sport like they would football and basketball and all the other sports. If an ineligible player is used in football and the state finds out about it, they forfeit all those games and if the school misses out on the playoff too bad. The attitude has been that we are new and everything is new so we will let it go this time. Well, we are four years into this and we’re not new anymore. START ENFORCING THE RULES.

23. Eagle Eye: (4-19-07) Subject: Acceptable Punishment.
There is solid proof that the bowlers in question exceeded the number of events that they were allowed to participate in. The question now is what is acceptable punishment for violation of the rules? These individuals took 2 spots away from other bowlers who should have had a chance at the state title and at least one team was denied the opportunity to bowl for a state title. I have heard through the grapevine that these individuals will be suspended for 3 matches next year and allowed to compete for regional and state titles again. The state needs to take a tougher stance on the punishment. It needs to allow the bowlers to compete all year long but the individuals should not be allowed to participate in post season competition and the teams should also be banned from the regionals. Otherwise, what is to prevent all bowlers from competing all year long. If I get a slap on the wrist and get a 3 meet suspension the following year, it’s no big deal. I can still bowl my leagues at that time and get to compete for the state title. And what occurs if the bowler is a senior? Oh well, too bad we can't enforce the punishment. Rules are meant to be followed and each coach is made fully aware of the rules at the beginning of the season. He is responsible for the actions of his bowlers and the individual and school should be properly punished or this could get to be the norm, especially for the next group of senior student athletes.

22. PaddleFoot97: (4-19-07) Subject: Response to Woody, 2-28-07.
Regional assignments will never be perfect, and as high school bowling continues to expand, certain growing pains will inevitably exist.  Our school was moved in mid-season from one region to another, both out of town but the second further away than the first, requiring us to pass thru several other towns with schools of equivalent size from our Division, while those same schools had to travel to our city to compete:  our scores would have been very competitive--one team qualifying for States, the other would have been fourth--rather than sixth and seventh, which I still proudly proclaim.  However, no system can be perfect, and anyone can find inequities in any system.  Not that you don't have a valid point when competing against more teams than other regions, but I wonder whether the "uneven" number of teams was the result of the size of the host bowling centers available in each area:  When centers differ in size and conditions, total equity is virtually impossible.  Several more growing pains and further tweaking of procedures over the next 3 or 4 years or even more seem inevitable before "the system" settles into place

21. Monk: (4-3-07) Subject: Response to Eagle Eye.
Don't forget, high school bowlers are still allowed to bowl in youth leagues and outside tournaments (limit two) provided they don't exceed the competition number of days. The key word is "days", as a bowler could compete with his/her high school team in a tournament or meet in the morning, and compete in their youth league (provided they are bowling with students from their high school and a coach is present) that afternoon or evening,  and it would still count as only one day of competition. We have to trust the integrity of our coaches in monitoring competition days. I don't know if the athlete you are discussing was in violation or not, but be sure to have all the facts before making accusations. As to the altering of ball surface, I was at that competition and agree with your assessment. I do know that that athlete did not advance past the first round of match play and that that athlete did not sand the ball until after qualifying was done. So, in essence and perhaps as poetic justice, the mis-deed was not an advantage in this case.

20. Eagle Eye: (4-3-07) Subject: MHSAA Rules Violations.
There is some disturbing news, if it is true, that there were individuals that qualified for the state finals who violated the MHSIBCA rules regarding the total number of events that a student athlete could participate in a season. Individuals who qualified for the state finals were found to have continued bowling in leagues and outside tournaments in addition to their regular season that would have exceeded the allotted 24 events that an athlete was allowed to participate. To date, there has been no mention of any investigation or punishment to the teams and individuals who may have violated the MHSAA rules. If these athletes are found to have broken the rules, I believe that the punishment should be for the student to forfeit any recognition that he/she earned in that year and if they are not a senior, be banned from competition for the following year. In addition, their schools should be banned from competing in the regional tournament in the following year. There is also a rumor that another individual in the finals of the singles event had the surface of their ball altered while competing and used the equipment without any consequences. This action, should it be confirmed, should also result in the individual having to forfeit their status from the past state finals. It is a shame that individuals cannot follow basic rules of competition that 99% of the athletes do in order to try and get an advantage. A strong and decisive punishment must be applied to those individuals to show the rest of the athletes that this action will not be tolerated.

19. T-Town Bowler: (3-7-07) Subject: Response to MSU AND U.
Baker games are inherently different than individual games. Hence, the term individual. We were discussing the situation of severely different lane conditions on the two lanes of a pair.  In this situation, no, I can not get a read off of the bowler who bowls on the left lane for how I should throw it on the right!  I am then forced to make my adjustment decisions based on the bowler before him--who may or may not throw a similar line as me and thus may or may not be helpful in choosing my shot.
I don't know who you are referring to with SVSC.  My assumption is SVSU, although I may be wrong.  Yes, they are some of the best collegiate bowlers, and I don't care if they get awards for it or not.  We should not organize our sport based on awards.

18. MSU AND U: (3-5-07) Subject: Response to T-Town Bowler:
    So if they bowl on more than one lane, collegian players are unable to read the lane conditions? I find that hard to believe. I also believe the SVSC bowling team has multiple USBC 300 TEAM Baker Awards. Those bowlers are some of the best collegian bowlers in the country.  Learn to read the lanes, or write it down if you cannot remember. As for the team aspect, every team I bowled on used alternating lanes. Why should baker games be any different?

17. T-Town Bowler: (3-5-07) Subject: Response to Shy Guy:
    The whole point of a baker game is to promote a team atmosphere. In college, it is important to make adjustments and reads off of your teammates to make the best possible shot. In the case of severely different conditions, this is impossible in an alternating lanes format. I see nothing unfair about switching lanes at the end of the first game, like college does, and letting the low pinfall team choose for the third game. High school coaches are responsible for not making it a track meet. And, while a baker 300 is an impressive accomplishment, we should not organize a sport for specific awards. Do you really expect an award for 2 strikes?

18. Shy Guy: (3-4-07) Subject: Response to T-Town Bowler on Baker games:
    If that is the case and we go back to the old way of bakers, then any and all baker 300 games rolled should not be recognized. The college format does not follow award score recognition procedures of bowling on a pair of lanes. The change was made for three reasons: 1st to legitimize a baker 300; 2^nd, and most important, to level the playing field for all. If a pair of lanes are drastically different, especially in a best 2 out of 3 match or a total wood match, the conditions are equalized with alternating bakers for both teams. Finally, the track meet that can ensue with one lane bakers can eliminate any true team drama or excitement of a close match with one team finishing at times 3 or 4 frames ahead of the opposition. Pressure and excitement…isn't that what we want in our sport?  Both Michigan and Ohio HS use alternating bakers.  And more states are looking into making the change. College should make the change!

17. T-Town Bowler: (3-4-07) Subject: Baker games:
    Well, I am now one year removed from being a high school bowler, and it was really hard to sit back and watch my team at their conference championship without bowling with them.  However, one thing struck me as odd.  Since graduating, I now bowl at the University of Michigan. 
In college, baker games are bowled with the team bowling on their own pair. (For the obvious reasons.)  However, high school switches lanes. It is my opinion that high school should mirror college.

16. Woody: (2-28-07) I was wondering what coaches are thinking of the regional assignments. Is it fair to take the same number of singles and teams from each region? Look at the posting for the girls for example. Regions 13 and 14 only have 11 schools while region 15 had 15 schools. The odds go down when you get stuck in a bigger region. If you are going to State and running a qualifying block,
why would the numbers have to be set getting there. All they would need to be is even. I know it would be tough, but I think there has to be a fairer way to do it. So, what does everyone think? Congratulations to all the schools that made it.

15. Monk: (2-21-07) Each high school sports team is comprised of individuals. There is no getting away from that fact. Our job as high school coaches is to assess a bowler’s ability, tailor a plan to further each player's skills and, ideally, blend those individuals into team units. Try as we might, the individual rears its competitive head time and time again. I see nothing wrong with recognizing individual achievement as well as team efforts, especially since we've designed our conference, regional and championship events with individual components. The shining light is that even a bowler who achieves an individual accolade is proud to do it while competing for his/her school. A careful observer will note that even the high school bowler with less than championship skills is bolstered by small, individual achievements including beating a personal best, throwing two strikes in a row or just competing in a match for the first time. One of the best things about high school bowling is watching students gain self-esteem and confidence. Some of that comes from being part of a team, some of that comes from individual accomplishment. It's all good.

14. Lefty Love: (2-21-07) It really amazes me how in the sport of high school bowling how focused we have gotten on the individual part of the game. This is high school sports, which is supposed to emphasize team, not certain individuals. Not to take away from the singles part of regionals and states, but the coaches have to pay a fee each year so the kids can qualify for individual awards. Parents will be all over the coach about that and might care less that the best team in the state won’t win it all because they are too concerned about individual stats instead of helping a team win. We really need to get back to what high school sports is all about and that’s the TEAM aspect of it. Worry more about top averages and individual awards after the season is over.

13. KOZBOWL: (1-14-07) With regard to the split game scoring issues:  It is our position in our program and we plan on recommending to the MHSAA that it  should make it a hard fast rule that once a substitution occurs in a game that no individual stat should be awarded to any player even if the substitution occurs in the last ball of the 10th frame.  That would eliminate the inflated average issue.  It also sends the message that its not about wining at any cost.  More importantly I got into coaching to build the self confidence of young man and young women to hopefully take off the lanes and apply to there daily life’s  Pulling a kid in the middle of a game because he or she is struggling sends the wrong message.  (ie  if its to hard then just quit)  and dose nothing to boost self confidence.  We tell our kids,  Bowling just like life is a game of ups and downs how well you deal with both is much more important then wining or loosing because its your character  that stays with you for the rest of you life not how many pins you can knock down.  Remember its about the kids ……

12. NEUTRAL OBSERVER: (1-11-07) Bowling Mom mentions that pitchers and batters get pulled if they are having a bad day, BUT they take their statistics with them. If a batter is 0-for 2 and gets pulled, that's still two at bats added on his record to be divided into the number of hits. If a pitcher gives up five runs and is pulled after three innings, his earned run average for the game is 15 (three-inning total of five multiplied by three to total nine innings). So if a similar system was used in bowling,  if I had 40 after four frames and I'm pulled, my average for the game would be 100 (an average of 10 pins per frame times 10). Under that system if I had 3560 for 20 full games and added an extrapolated scored of 100 for my partial game, my total would be 3660 for 21 games, an average of 174.285. But the Detroit All-Star Classic does it a little different and it's a little more forgiving. Each frame is .1 (1/10th) and the season average is arrived at by dividing the total pinfall by the total number of games. So if I've totaled 3560 pins in 20 games,  and 40 pins in .4 games, my total would be 3600 pins for 20.4 games and my average would be 176.47.  The true average for every bowler is the number of pins knocked down divided by the number of games. With bowling being a 10-frame game, the decimal system makes it easy.

11. wswbowler: (1-8-07) Its seems once again we are involved with a controversy regarding trying to fit MHSAA High School Bowling into a format that complies with USBC Youth rules, and I for one wonder why? With the formation of USBC High School to recognize high school bowling, what is the need to use USBC Youth in regards to any thing to do with high school bowling. Our high school athletes can participate in USBC Youth bowling prior to, and after the high school season. And if done right, can actually bowl in their USBC Youth league during the season. The MHSAA allows for 2 exemptions, which can be used for say Pepsi qualifying if it occurs during the high school season.
     It seems to me that every time we try to shape and mold MHSAA High School Bowling to fit USBC Youths format, or USBC Youth to fit the  MHSAA High School Bowling format we create problems. The MHSAA format of substitution, not allowing forced outside membership in any organization, do not usually fit well with USBC Youth guidelines.

10. Raider Mom: (1-8-07) I see a lot of posts about 'saving someone's average', Does it really happen that much or is it the 1 or 2% who are creating a problem?  When a bowler on our team is having a bad game, they get pulled....the coach wants to get the winning point.  The students want to win the match and understand.  We put all of the split/shared scores under a separate bowler named shared scores.  Averages are only a gage of how you think you will fare against the opposing team.

9. MSUANDU: (1-8-07) When a batter swings, a quarterback attempts a pass or a  pitcher throws a pitch, it goes against his/her average and is recorded. So when using this analogy, a frame thrown should count for the bowler. Yes, this is a team sport, but when bowling an individual game during the team competition the individuals should be credited for their performance.
* Maybe we just report the bowler’s average along with how many times he/she has been pulled during a match/games. This would bring notice, maybe unwelcome, to the program that continues to protect certain bowlers. Then again, maybe the problem is not as prevalent as some think.

8. The One: (1-8-07) I agree with Bowling Mom on the substitution point. In all high school sports it is allowed as it should be.  I really think we have  a verywonderful and honest group of state coaches that would not ruin the integrity of their school or the high school bowling program.  What I do not agree with is the fact that the USBC is allowing kids in high school competition to qualify for their tournaments.  Each athlete has an opportunity to qualify for the Pepsi Tournament prior to the start of the high school season. Each local USBC association can ask to have the qualifier moved up to allow the kids to qualify before the high school season begins. There should be no need to use the high school bowling season to be used for other outside cooperate events. In affect it looks as if high school bowlers are given an advantage to qualify for Pepsi just because they are bowling in the high school conference. Is this fair to the other USBC kids who don't bowl on a high school team? Maybe that is Pepsi's responsibility to only allow a one time qualifying score. Look at the issues we have already had with trying to include the USBC with our high school sport.  My point is let the kids bowl as high school athletes without having the USBC involved in any way. Before and after the season they can bowl all they want as a USBC member and be awarded by that organization in their way.  Let's reward our kids with our method of bowling as a team and enjoying the chance to compete against kids from other schools that they normally would not have a chance to by using our system.  We have a great committee of state coaches who have put together a wonderful and fair program to the best of their ability.  Let's go with our people. Remember, we hold the ability to say yes or no to the USBC.

7. BOWLING MOM: (1-5-07) I don't necessarily believe that coaches are pulling people to protect their average.  In football, basketball, baseball, and other school sports, they are not doing that, and no one plays if they are doing bad.  High School sports are very competitive.  Yes, building character, developing social skills, sportsmanship and team work are all important, as well as learning how to be a gracious loser, as well as a gracious winner, but all of high school sports have a huge emphasis on winning.  If pulling someone out that is struggling helps, it should be allowed.
     Maybe part of the problem we have is dealing with the concept that bowling is so very individual, although they do keep individual stats on football, basketball, baseball, and all other team sports.  If someone is having a bad day batting, that doesn't go against their batting average if they are pulled.  If you have a pitcher having a bad day, you pull that person and put someone else in.  They don't leave that person in to learn to overcome adversity.  If a quarterback is having accuracy problems, that person is pulled and someone else goes in.  You always want the 'hot' person in for all team sports.  Bowling should be no different.
     Maybe keeping it all baker would solve the problem.  There would be no averages to deal with.  Or you use the current format and don't keep averages, if they really don't represent the true average of the bowler.  You could just keep average of bowler1, bowler2, bowler3, bowler4, bowler5 by position, not by person, for each school team.  Averages are required to apply handicap that makes competition more even, but all of this is scratch.  Truly a person's average is not necessary for the competition in high school.  Stats could be just keeping track of number of frames bowled, number of strikes, and number of spares.  That would be the equivalent of the other sports' stats. 

6. MSUANDU: (1-5-07) All Academic Team * Should it be open to Juniors and Senior bowlers? I believe it should. What are your thoughts?

5. MSUANDU: (1-5-07) I am not sure if HSB and the USBC are a good match or not, only time will tell.
     I also believe that any game were more then 1/3 of said game is bowled by a individual, should be counted as a game for the bowler or bowlers. Winning an award by cheating or bending rules that govern the majority of bowlers should be a hollow victory for the bowler, their school and his/her coach.

4. Guru: (1-5-07) Subject:  How to calculate High School Averages. Should split games count on someone's average, or should that score go on no-one's average?
     Coaches, this is a high school sport not a bowling league.  Substitutions are part of the High School game and are necessary in building the team concept.  Without substitutions, the high school game is too much like a junior league and would be more individualistic than team oriented.
    According to the USBC headquarters, conferences can count a split game for someone's average as long as the conference is not USBC certified.  But, the average then would not be able to be used for USBC tournaments.  With some conferences doing this and others not would be confusing.  I feel a compromise can be met.
    The question of how averages are calculated is more of an awards committee question than anything else.  I feel most coaches would not care how averages are calculated.  But, coaches do care about which kids are All-Conference, All-State, and Golden Pin.  Thus, we have a problem because some coaches are pulling kids in the 9th or 10th frame of bad games to preserve their averages.
     If the end of the year awards committee, and all conferences that award All-Conference adopted a policy in which coaches had to submit complete game scores and partial game scores.  Then, for example at an All-Conference, All-State or Golden Pin meeting, coaches would have submitted final standings sheets with complete game averages calculated the USBC way, and a detailed record of games started, the student's score, and what frame was he or she pulled.  Then, in the eyes of the committee, they could catch an inflated average and look at a kids complete season.  In other words, for awards purposes only, each coach should be required to bring all information of when the student bowled.  Then, the integrity of averages are preserved and inflated averages can be caught. 
    For example, a student bowls 12 games and averages 211.  But they started 22 games and in the 10 games that the student was pulled the scores were not very good, then each coach would know that the student's average was indeed inflated.
     Otherwise, coaches will just pull kids to keep their averages high and that is not right.
     I feel the Coaches Association Policy could be that we compute averages according to USBC rules, but for awards purposes we need to account for whenever a student is competing.

3. Monk: (1-5-07) Here Here to The One and the opinions expressed regarding awards. It is definitely time that High School Bowling and USBC bowling separate. As one who has been involved from the start with forming the current incarnation of High School bowling in Michigan, I can attest that changing the mindset of the parents and athletes from Saturday Morning bowling with its traditions of pins, patches and trophies, to the mindset of High School bowling with its standards of academic eligibility, school spirit and letter awards has been a battle. For the first two seasons under which we operated as BCAM High School Bowling, I had weekly confrontations and discussions with parents and athletes regarding the rule changes, the concept of scratch bowling and dress codes The fact that not every bowler was entitled to throwing the same number of frames or games due to competition for spots on the team also became a bone of contention as the old youth bowling model ensured that each bowler held a spot on a team and would bowl their allotted number of games in each league. Why not, they were paying for the privilege. The High School model, particularly at the varsity level precludes such inherent rights. Spots on varsity teams are earned by the level of skill and are maintained based on eligibility. Youth who wish to earn USBC awards should sanction and bowl in USBC leagues and follow the MHSAA participation rules which allow them to also bowl in High School programs. What needs to happen is each integer must remain clear on its rules and expectations. It is up to the youth bowler to make the correct decisions which allow him/her to have their cake and eat it too.

2. Creek Voice: (1-4-07) I agree with the USBC. It's way beyond time coaches quit using split scores to protect high average bowlers. We are supposed to be promoting integrity, and yet if someone is struggling their averages are being saved. Bad games are part of bowling. Let the athletes learn to overcome adversity and realize not everything will go great all the time.

1. The One: (1-4-07) (The One's post is in response to an Email Blast from the MHSIBCA Treasurer: NOTE REFERENCE) Even though the USBC would like to become part of the high school bowling trend, I think it best that it gets away from it altogether.  I don't even think they should have the awards they have now for high school.
     We should remind ourselves that this is a high school sport that is really governed by high school authorities and only uses the USBC rules to govern the play. It is similar to that of the high school golf teams. They use the PGA rules but there are no awards attached. There is really no other connection but we tend to feel there should be because of our past affiliations.
     After going over this for the past 3 years, we need to realize we really need the separation. There has always been a strong imbedded consciousness of rewarding kids with patches and rings. Well, that is well and good for the USBC organization, but this is not the same feeling
for awards on the high school ranks.  It is more dedicated to building character, developing social skills, sportsmanship and team work not individual gratification with individual rewards.
     If we step back and really look at what is going on, I think Sharon is right in her decision not to use the scores from the high school conference, and I support her 100%, even though I am Vice President of our Greater Lansing USBC Youth Association. This is just my personal opinion, and I am not making any statements on behalf of the MHSAA, our local USBC Youth Association, or our high school conference.

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